maniakes ([info]maniakes) wrote,
@ 2008-04-23 10:31:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Tax-funded campaign idea
I think I've come up with an idea for public campaign financing which I don't hate.

Currently, on your income taxes, you can check a box to designate $3 of your taxes to go towards the presidential campaign matching fund. That money funds all the qualified candidates who accept the matching funds. I leave that box unchecked because I want the likes of Mike Huckabee and Bill Richardson to pay their own ways.

My idea is that rather than that checkbox diverting into a shared fund, you instead have a portion of your taxes saved up, and 3 months in advance of each election you have the option of saving it for later, abandoning it into the public treasury, or designating it to candidates of your choosing.

The first variation I came up with was a $10-20 fee each election cycle to register to vote (waived if you're below a certain income threshold), which (after deducting administrative costs) is paid to the campaign funds of the candidates you designate while registering. This variation won't work, as it's unconstitutional for good reason.

In either proposal, additional contributions and independant issue advocacy are absolutely permitted. The purpose of this proposal is to increase the portion of campaign finance which comes from the broad electorate, thus diminishing the relative influence of large donors, which is the primary goal of public finance proposals.


(Post a new comment)


[info]makellan
2008-04-23 06:02 pm UTC (link)
The primary goal is, as you say, to spread the donations out to small donors. This has been happening already via the internet, but I think that this election cycle is slightly special because more people care.
Therefore, I propose to make more people care as a means to get them to donate more. The best way I see is a method we've discussed before: make everyone who reasonably can, vote. Either by direct fees if you don't vote or "tax cuts" if you do, which amount to the same thing.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 06:28 pm UTC (link)
And as we've discussed before, I am skeptical of that because I feel that casting a properly informed vote involves a degree of understanding of issues and candidates that most people don't have the time and inclination for, and forcing people to vote will just add noise to the system. Yes, many of the people we'd drag to the poll would put more effort into researching politics than they do now, but their votes will generally be less informed than the average volunteer voter.

Even people like us who follow politics as a hobby tend to have astonishing gaps in our knowledge. I know my congressman's name and party and in broad strokes I know a few of his political positions (he's pro-war, pro-free-trade, and takes a wide stance on immigration and social security), but I have no idea what votes he's cast. I'm pretty sure all my state legislators are Democrats, but that's all I know about them. I know the name of one of my Senators and I know she's a Democrat, but that's all I know about her; I suspect my other Senator is also a Democrat, but I'm really at a total loss beyond that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kamili
2008-04-23 08:08 pm UTC (link)
MegaVote is a useful tool for keeping up to date on your local politicos. It tells you each week what your folks have voted.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 08:14 pm UTC (link)
I'll have to take a look at that. Thanks!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]makellan
2008-04-23 08:46 pm UTC (link)
Actually, you're the one who follows politics as a hobby. I only look up relevant bits for debate purposes. I have positions, but know almost nothing about my personal elected officials. When a vote comes up, I simply match up my ideals against theirs and see who comes closest. Only in rare cases or for fact-checking would I investigate someone's voting record.
Though, with more of the comments read, I'll try MegaVote.
Also, I agree with [info]herufeanor in that anything that makes me turn in more forms to the government is more of a pain than it's worth. I could go for a system where you could opt-in for such a service and you could mail, call or go online to choose who your money goes to this cycle. I'm not sure that it's a good idea as it really creates quite a bit more government waste in the form of people handing out the forms, people accepting and processing the forms, paper, printing and postage, computer systems to manage the process, finance people and systems to manage the money and keep it visible to the campaign finance watchdog groups.... and then some. All to incentivise the average voter to throw 10 bucks a year at their favorite candidate.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 11:25 pm UTC (link)
Wait. You're arguing against me on the grounds of reduced government bureaucracy, and [info]stride is arguing against me on economic liberty grounds?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]stride
2008-04-23 11:30 pm UTC (link)
I thought it's standard proceedure to argue with you on principle? ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-23 11:41 pm UTC

[info]herufeanor
2008-04-23 06:56 pm UTC (link)
The basic concept sounds reasonable, I think, but it also sounds a bit complicated, not in concept, but in execution.

Essentially, in August, you're going to have to turn a new form into the government, at a time when you would likely not otherwise be interacting with the government at all, to specify where your tax withholding will go.

My guess is that the VAST majority of voters will simply fail to turn in any such form, even if they want to donate to a candidate, because they just don't get to it.

So, while I really like the idea that you get to forward a portion of your tax money to a particular candidate of your choosing, I don't think this is quite the way to do it. I'm not sure what the right way would be, but I think it needs to be setup such that people actually DO it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 07:14 pm UTC (link)
That's true. That's part of why I was thinking of tying it in with voter registration, but that doesn't work completely because we're used to registering only when we move, not for every election.

I'm open to ideas. If there's enough money involved, campaigns will take a fair amount of the effort they normally put into fundraising and move it towards making sure people get the forms filled out so they (the campaigns) can collect the public finance money, but that's only a partial solution.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]herufeanor
2008-04-23 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Hmm. It is true that the campaigns themselves would go to great lengths to simplify the process. I imagine them setting up kiosks, like those voter registration kiosks you often see setup during election times, to hand out the forms and offer help in filling them out.

Of course, since money is involved, you'd have to be VERY careful about such things, to avoid fraud. With the voter registration kiosks, they will usually collect the form when you're done with it, and mail the whole pile off at once at the end of the day. However, in that case, the worst they can do is switch which party you register as, which doesn't even necessarily offer them any real advantage. With these forms, they could essentially steal a donation that you intended to go to a different candidate, which is a big deal.

So, I'd say that while anybody can hand out the forms, that legally only the person whose withholding is affected can fill it out, and only that person can mail it (with special exceptions for people with disabilities). So, the form must be well and truly blank when it's handed out, and won't at any point be handed back to the kiosk to be tampered with. If they're smart, they'll typically set up their kiosks in the vicinity of one of those big blue mailboxes, and provide pre-addressed, pre-paid envelopes.

Considering what's at stake, I would trust in each side to monitor the kiosks run by their opponent's campaigns, and report any wrong doing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 08:20 pm UTC (link)
At least up here, there's a lot of effort put into local organizers going door-to-door talking to people. Generally, there's two big pushes. One early in the election cycle to figure out everyone's political affiliation (since we're the only state without partisan voter registration, this has to be done manually) and political interests, and to encourage people of your party to register if they haven't already, and one during the voting period (we have mail-in ballots that go out 3 weeks before "election day") to make sure everyone who affiliates with your party gets their ballots in. I'd expect a third round to encourage people to fill out and turn in the forms.

It's also crossed my mind that in states with partisan voter registration, the money could go by default to your local party. I'm kinda leaning against it, as I'd rather the candidates have to make the case to individuals for the money, and I'd be nervous about the parties winding up as gatekeepers, but it's a possibility.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]stride
2008-04-23 10:18 pm UTC (link)
And then you have disgruntled people like me who think donating to politicians is a waste of hard-earned money. I'd rather donate it to cancer research, wildlife rescues, habitat for humanity, etc. rather than on a political process which seemingly no longer cares about anything other than getting the vote. Heck, at this point even cancer research is taking a back seat to me eating healthy and affording gas.

If someone tries to "force" me to donate...well, that's one tax that I do not see a direct (or even a possible future, like unemployment or food stamps) benefit to myself in return and therefore would be strongly against it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]herufeanor
2008-04-23 10:23 pm UTC (link)
The benefit of something like this, though, is that it potentially permits you, and all of the likewise jaded and dispirited voters, to take greater control of the political process. If ALL campaign funding was in the form of individual donations of equal size arranged through mandatory taxes, a lot more of them would go to less mainstream candidates who would have the potential to, at the very least, shake up the process by introduce difficult issues that the mainstream candidates might like to ignore. It's even possible that some third party candidates might suddenly find themselves with enough funding to make it into Congress.

Of course, I think this is the very reason why this system will never go into effect. The parties currently in control have too much to lose, and nothing to gain.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 10:38 pm UTC (link)
A key part of me not hating this proposal is that it not only doesn't compel support of candidates (as most other public financing schemes do), but also that it's a nonexclusive form of financing. My understanding of the first amendment requires that you be able to voluntarily spend your own money to promote issues and candidates you favor.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]herufeanor
2008-04-23 10:53 pm UTC (link)
I see that as a rather odd translation of the 1st amendment, and it seems the Supreme Court agrees with me. The actual text of the amendment (just for quick reference) is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The specific passage cited is "or abridging the freedom of speech". Now, "speech" is translated very broadly by the government, as pretty much ANY form of expression, rather then just literal spoken words. This is good, and I agree with this. However, giving money to a politician or cause is not a mode of expression. It's a method of aiding somebody else in THEIR expression. This is a vital distinction, and I believe it is this distinction that the Supreme Court saw in Buckley v. Valeo and McConnell v. Federal Election Commission, in both cases upholding restrictions on donations, while striking down restrictions on expenditures, because donations to a candidate are not a mode of expression, but a candidate spending money to distribute their message IS a mode of expression.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Remember, this is the same organization which believes that growing small amounts of marijuana for personal medical use specifically authorized by state law is "interstate commerce".

The Supreme Court's arguments seem a flimsy distinction. By forbidding people to pool resources to speak as a group, you are effectively limiting large-scale political speech to those who command major resources as individuals.

While we're looking at the exact text, let's also take a look at what "freedom of the press" means. I'm pretty sure it doesn't just mean freedom of professional media organizations, but also freedom of individuals and political groups to print and distribute leaflets and the like, and a large portion of what a political campaign or advocacy group does is roughly that.

And also consider "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances", which sounds a lot like lobbying and issue advocacy to me. Not necessarily the money-donation functions of lobbyists (which I think is protected under freedom of speech and freedom of the press), but definitely the organizing and legislature education/persuasion aspects of lobbying.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-23 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-23 11:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 06:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 09:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 09:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-25 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-25 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-25 12:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-25 01:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-25 01:53 am UTC

[info]stride
2008-04-23 10:44 pm UTC (link)
I can see where this sort of system does have potential, but I unfortunately do not believe this will help out the disgruntled voters. All it would take is one or two elections where the person you donated money towards did not win to kill the desire to participate.

“If you spend money, spend money on an asset.” There is still no guarantee that, if you donate towards a cause, that the elect will actually follow thru campaign promises. In keeping with my pre-established theme; if Politician X states that they will raise money for cancer research once elected - that is great! However, I have watched enough politicians spend years fighting to get anything accomplished* to believe they hold the power to magically waive their hands and “make it so” in a timely fashion. I'd rather take that $10 and give it directly to the causes that I support so I know it gets there.

Also, if there's a minimum, there should be a maximum. Just because I donate $10 (instead of 0) doesn't mean that Another Voter X won't donate $1010 (instead of $1000) to negate my contribution simply because he can afford it. While it does seem like AVX's right to donate as much as they want, that still puts a huge advantage in the hand of 5% of the population and you also fall into the same monetary gap that exists today.

* I concede that there are usually multiple factors at work that delay measures passing. It is annoying that it requires a school blowing up or a tanker truck melting our freeways for people to get off their asses and actually do something!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 10:52 pm UTC (link)
I picked $10 as the number because $10 per registered voter would add up to quite a bit more money than candidates currently raise from large donors. A big part of why Obama's been swimming in cash this election cycle is that he's been asking individuals for small donations and he's been getting it, and if that approach turns out to work in general (i.e. if Obama isn't the only one who can pull this off), an attitude shift among candidates towards seeking lots of small donations may be a better way of accomplishing the goals of this proposal.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]stride
2008-04-23 11:07 pm UTC (link)
I picked $10 since it's a nice round number :)

And it's true. Look at the Ron Paul supporters and their successful "let's donate 1 bajillion dollars in a day" drives. They were highly successful in raising an insane amount of money, but not necessarily in getting their nominee elected.

If you are going that route: there is nothing stopping people from spending $10 on Obama - especially now that it has been proven that small contributions quickly add up. The internet is still fairly new to these politicians. I think Dean was the first canidate that really used it to a good advantage during the last election. With the internet being easily available [library, work, or other public places], and paypal being free [or credit card], and both being used abundantly by those who typically vote, I see no reason to impose on folks a tax to further the political process. Let them be free to decide for themselves what they want to do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-23 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stride, 2008-04-23 11:27 pm UTC

[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 10:27 pm UTC (link)
There's that, too.

Part of the idea is that this is an optional carve-out of revenue from existing taxes, not a new additional tax, and you always have the option of checking the box to have the money go to regular government programs (as it would have it this program didn't exist) instead of to a candidate.

BTW, when did the political process care about things other than getting the vote? I don't see a big difference in politicians between now and 10, 20, 30 years ago, and the most notable difference I see between today's politicians and 19th century politicians is how brazenly corrupt the 19th century politicians were.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]stride
2008-04-23 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Re: Political Process:

And that's just it. Maybe it's because I grew up on all those stories in my Social Studies class of Truth, Justice, and the Founding Fathers... but darn it! I want someone to ride a Calvary horse carrying a big stick and whacking the heck out of anyone who threatens the American people (I don't think that Teddy could get away with half of his antics nowadays, but you have to admit he was amusing and a living tall-tale in his own time). I want someone who looks beyond the polls at what is going on in the inner cities and the mill towns and come up with ways to have the money flow there again. I want someone to give a damn that it's more important to make a difference rather than to have the American people pay them to sit on their asses, drink coffee, and think about passing a bill maybekindasorta in the next two years or so.

Why is "change" such an important word for this election? Maybe because people have realized that those-in-control have stopped listening or caring about their needs long ago.

Sorry for the rant. It's not directed at you; you just host the LJ. It's the politics that get under my nerves. I've taken the "since I can't fix it, there is nothing that I can [make that willing, I'm poor and have no time!] do stance, which is frustrating itself. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 11:17 pm UTC (link)
Dang, but was Theodore Roosevelt a character! Candace lent me a book about the lead-up to WWI (focusing on the naval arms race between Britain and Germany, but also generally tracking international diplomacy and domestic politics in the European Great Powers) a while back, and while TR didn't figure in much he made a big splash when he did, particularly in the Moroccan Crisis.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]stride
2008-04-23 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Teddy is my favorite president, hands down. Second is FDR.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-23 11:24 pm UTC

[info]herufeanor
2008-04-23 11:41 pm UTC (link)
I want someone who looks beyond the polls at what is going on in the inner cities and the mill towns and come up with ways to have the money flow there again.

You know, the attitude of "ignoring the polls" is actually one of the major things that Bush espoused, and has been a key element of his Presidency. The result? A President who's goals rarely seem to line up with those of the American people.

While I don't think a politician should tailor their message each day based on what is popular that day, regardless of what they said the day before (and when I see a politician doing this, they quickly lose my support, i.e. Feinstein and Schwarzenegger), I likewise don't think they should ignore the polls, because the polls are the strongest indication we have of what the people actually WANT. They are actually a powerful representation of modern Democracy, and one of the best tools a politician has to attempt to follow the will of the people.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]maniakes
2008-04-23 11:47 pm UTC (link)
The argument in favor of ignoring the polls is that part of why we have politicians instead of direct democracy is that we don't have the time or inclination to study every issue, so we hire full-time represenatives to specialize and take the decisions for us.

On the other hand, I do think a major virtue of democracy is that it forces politicians to justify controvercial decisions to the electorate, and I think a major failing of the Bush administration is that he hasn't even tried -- the Rove strategery has been to sell policies to a bare majority when up for election, and to completely ignore the public once Bush was reelected since he would never be up for election again.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 12:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herufeanor, 2008-04-24 12:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maniakes, 2008-04-24 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stride, 2008-04-24 05:33 pm UTC

Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…